Are you ready to transform your approach to healthy cooking and nutrition? Join me in this enlightening episode of The Holly Perkins Health Podcast, where I sit down with culinary nutritionist Ellie Krieger, a registered dietitian and beloved television personality. Together, we dive deep into the world of nutritious and delicious food, emphasizing that healthy eating doesn't have to be a chore. As Ellie beautifully puts it, “Food should be both nourishing and pleasurable. ” This conversation is packed with insights that will inspire you to embrace cooking with joy and creativity.
Are you ready to transform your approach to healthy cooking and nutrition? Join me in this enlightening episode of The Holly Perkins Health Podcast, where I sit down with culinary nutritionist Ellie Krieger, a registered dietitian and beloved television personality. Together, we dive deep into the world of nutritious and delicious food, emphasizing that healthy eating doesn't have to be a chore. As Ellie beautifully puts it, “Food should be both nourishing and pleasurable. ” This conversation is packed with insights that will inspire you to embrace cooking with joy and creativity.
We explore the crucial role that nutrition plays in women's health, especially for those navigating the complexities of midlife and menopause. With so many women over 35 seeking effective weight loss and fitness solutions, Ellie shares practical tips on how to simplify cooking and make it more realistic for busy lives. Discover how to incorporate healthy eating into your routine without sacrificing flavor or enjoyment.
Ellie also opens up about her creative process behind recipe development and the responsibility she feels when sharing food content. Her Substack newsletter is a treasure trove of recipes and articles designed to demystify nutrition for women, making it easier than ever to understand how to eat for muscle, manage stress, and boost energy levels. We discuss the emotional aspects of food and how comfort food can be approached in a healthier way, allowing us to connect with our loved ones over nourishing meals.
This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to enhance their wellness journey, with practical advice on toning workouts, fitness motivation, and clean eating tips. Whether you're dealing with PCOS and fitness challenges or simply want to improve your nutrition, this conversation will equip you with the knowledge and motivation to make positive changes in your life. Tune in and discover how to make healthy cooking an enjoyable part of your daily routine!
If you're interested in womens health, this is the podcast for you.
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Speaker #0 Ellie, hello and welcome. I am so, so, so excited to talk to you and to introduce you to my community. It's so fun that we go so far back and have this opportunity to reconnect. So welcome to the show. I would love it if you would just kind of introduce yourself and tell the listeners a little bit about who you are, what you do, where you are, all the good stuff. Okay. Speaker #1 Sure. And Holly, it is so great to talk with you and to be here on your program, on your podcast. It's just a fabulous opportunity for me. So thank you. And also, it's just remarkable because we both really started out our careers together. We have known each other for so long. And so it's just very joyful for me to be talking with you here. So I just wanted to start by saying that. So about me, let's see. So I am, I describe myself as a culinary nutritionist. I'm a registered dietitian and my focus is food and delicious food. And my mission in life is honestly to inspire people to make delicious food for themselves, food that nourishes them in every way, food that nourishes their taste buds and excites them and also nourishes their body and helps them feel great for the short and the long run. So that's really my mission. And I do this through the media, really. And I jokingly half jokingly say name a media I'm in. So I've had three TV shows in my life so far. My most recent is Ellie's real good food, which is on public television. It's still airing and reruns. It's also digit airing or streaming digitally on different channels. And, And then I also had a Food Network show for many years and a syndicated show. I write for the Washington Post. I have seven cookbooks. And so it sounds like I'm all over the place. I've also had a podcast for many years, and that's on my website, all the links to those. So it sounds like I'm all over the place, but really my mission is so cohesive. And that is really to inspire people to nourish themselves. in the most delicious possible way. Speaker #0 Yeah, I feel like you summed it up so beautifully. And when I look at your career, you know, I've been following you now for what 30 years we've been in this, right? We met what 1995 96. I think my gosh, yes, Speaker #1 around them. That's crazy. Speaker #0 So wild. On the one hand, it feels like yesterday. And on the other hand, it's like, what 30 years? How am I even that old? But, you know, I've followed you all these years and I would say like with all of the different ways we can find you, you really have maintained that cohesive mission. And what I love about you is that you really prove that healthy cooking can be delicious too. I think that so many people have this idea that it's either bad for you fast food or it's... good-for-you steamed broccoli and boiled chicken, which few people really enjoy. And you've done such a beautiful job of bringing that conversation to a place where Healthy food can be totally delicious. Speaker #1 And thank you for saying that. And I want to say not only can it be, it should be like if it's not delicious, don't eat it. Speaker #0 Yes. Speaker #1 Like it should be delicious. You should expect it to be delicious. And I think that in the conversation around nutrition, two things for me are often missing from that conversation completely that are so critical. And one is platelets. pleasure and flavor food is supposed to be pleasurable one of the things about it that isn't nourishing is the pleasure that it gives us and so i feel like we sometimes are almost afraid of having that pleasure around food without a doubt yeah yeah and then the other part of his community the way it brings people together and that's also an incredibly helpful thing about food the way it it brings us together in with friends, with family to break bread, with strangers even to get to know them. And this is one of the key it's turning out to be really one of the key facets of happiness. And there's a little bit of a happiness shortage in our in our country. And I think food can help us help us on our route to happiness, which is integral to good nutrition. So, I mean, to me, that's a real holistic way of looking at it as a whole person. What is this food doing for you? Speaker #0 Yeah, you know, I know that is one of the tenets of like blue zone thinking. And when we look at why is it people live so long in these blue zones, many people believe that one of the biggest reasons is this community and food quality, exactly what you just touched upon. Even though you and I know that, I think there are a lot of people who have very demanding lives, have very full lives. They don't have a lot of bandwidth to really see things in a different way. But it really is true that the food that's best for you really does taste the best. And yet, in this world of convenient food, I almost think it has influenced people's palate. And so I There is this disconnect, which is not true. You know, you and I both talked to this where it's like healthy food. Well, delicious food should be healthy and vice versa, to your point. Yeah. Speaker #1 Yeah. And I think one of the things and I, you know, I'm we I'm not living in a bubble. I am busy, crazy busy at the end of the day. I'm annoyed. I don't feel like cooking dinner for my family, but I do most nights. And it's like, how do I eat? And that's one of the things that I really try to do in my work with my recipes is I ask myself, would I want to make this on a regular Wednesday night? Is this easy enough? And so I think we also have this perception that like making food delicious and healthy takes an incredible amount of time. I mean, there are some things, of course, that are aspirational that might take longer in general. But for the most part, I'm looking at that and saying, how can I make this quick? How can I make it in one pan? How can I make it so that it's, you know, I may be using healthy shortcuts that are going to work for me and make this possible and make it easier and make it less of a drag. And I incorporate all of those real life things because we are living in what is the 21st century. And, and we have to, we have to accommodate for those for real life. So it's not living in a bubble. Yeah. As somebody might think, oh, no, that's not realistic for me. So my whole jam is also how can we make this realistic? What are the barriers? What's preventing you from getting a meal on the table for yourself and your family that's like more or less minerally processed ingredients? And there are lots of ways to do it that are not hard. And I'm telling you, you put on a little Bob Marley or something when you're cooking and suddenly your mood changes. Speaker #0 Yes. So as I told you when we were catching up, Dave and I built our dream home in very, very rural Pennsylvania. And when we made that move, Preparing food and or I should say feeding ourselves became a very different situation because in Los Angeles we have access to fast, reasonably delicious food in a variety of restaurants and we would go out or we would get takeout. And so the past six months have been so interesting for me and very much in alignment with this conversation and that I was like, okay, I have to start shopping differently and start working with some recipes to create great food. And you know what has been the wildest thing to discover is that pretty much all of my grocery shopping is at Walmart. I do order some specialty items from the internet. But almost it's all from Walmart. I found my go to recipes. And what we have been realizing is that my food that I'm making at home tastes so much better, even when I'm making something that we would get from a restaurant. And that was like shocking to me because I had never been forced to prepare food on the regular like I have been. And I think I was like, wow, this has been a complete revelation. re-engineering of my palate and how I experience food. And I think, you know, naturally, I started just really going down the rabbit hole on your Instagram and all of your recipes there because you've got so many incredible recipes that I was like, I can do this. That looks delicious, but it's also something that doesn't have a bunch of crazy ingredients. And so talk to us a little how you decide what you're going to film, what you're going to publish, what goes on to Substack, and just sort of your creative process around recipes. Speaker #1 Yeah, it's amazing because it's sort of, I mean, I've been, so I've been, gosh, I have hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of recipes under my belt because I have these seven cookbooks and then I've been writing for the Washington Post now a weekly column for the past going on 12 years. So 12 times 50 is whatever that is. Speaker #0 Wow. Speaker #1 600. So, yeah, so sometimes I honestly feel like calling my editors and saying, oh, I'm sorry, there are no more recipes in the entire world. Speaker #0 But truthfully, Speaker #1 I always find the muse, I always find something to be inspired by. And a lot of times, I'm really motivated by like, what do I feel like eating right now? So that's sort of what I go by my cravings, or I may try something in a restaurant, and say, how can I translate this into a recipe? combination into something that's really doable at home. So I, you know, I'm developing so many recipes all the time and my brain's always kind of thinking in that direction. And it's amazing. You know, I'm taking notes all the time. I'll come up with an idea just at the most random times. But yeah, but the key thing for me is making it doable. And it's interesting that you say how you're surprised at how delicious it is. And that's what amazes me too, because When you're in, first of all, just cooking at home, literally just making anything, whether it's a healthy recipe, quote unquote, or not. It's going to be better for you than if you order out. Speaker #0 Yep. Speaker #1 Just by the nature of the thing, by the nature of the portion size, by the nature of the amount of salt and butter added. Just the nature of it. It's going to be better for you. And then you can make it according to your taste. So if you like things a little more garlicky, you put in a little more or... A little less, you put in a little less. And you adjust the spice to what you like. And so you can make it to your palate. And I think that's what's really cool about cooking too is that you can use the recipe as a guide but also make it to suit you. So I think that's also what's great about cooking. And then what's fun about it is that if someone's not cooking much and then they start, as you're saying, and then you start and then you kind of have this aha moment like that was easy and delicious. And then it becomes this self-motivating thing in itself. And then interestingly, when I talk about community, then you're probably going to tell your friend, your friend's going to ask for the recipe and your friend's going to start to make that. And it just becomes this like drop in the bucket, drop in the pond, a pebble in the pond that waves out and affects so many aspects of your life and maybe the people around you if you're cooking for others. So that's what I love about recipes. So as a dietician, my mission is to get people to eat better. How do you do that? Through food, which is like so important. Such a eye catching, enticing way to lure people in and also get them to do this. This thing that's going to be so motivating ultimately and create big change. It's a small thing that creates big change. Speaker #0 Yeah, it really does. It's a whole new thing. So in your creative process, let's say if you're coming up with a new recipe that you're going to share on Instagram. I'm so curious about the behind the scenes. Do you have recipes that fail or and or? Speaker #1 Today I did. Today I literally today I can't I don't know if I can say which recipe I was testing but I was testing this dessert recipe um and I added it's milk-based and I added some pomegranate juice to it because I wanted it to be pink and um and it curdled and I thought it might because I know pomegranate juice is acid but I wasn't really sure if the acid would matter and it completely curdled so I had to completely rethink the whole thing. I dumped it out. What's interesting in my process, I usually will really think it out on paper before I get into the kitchen because by the time you go to the store and you buy the ingredients that's all labor and money. So I try to think it out as much as possible and really almost write the recipe out anticipating issues and I had sort of anticipated this might happen. But I was kind of jumping in and going for it. But but I went back to the drawing board and I found another solution. And it's in my fridge now setting. So my fingers are crossed. But yeah, I mean, sometimes usually things work for the most part. And then I might need to tweak them a little. It's rare that I've ever like scrapped an idea completely. Maybe that has happened once in the last 10 years where I just scrapped an idea like this is terrible and it's not working. But for the most part, I think it through on paper, write it out before I get to the kitchen, get into grocery shopping for it. And then I fine tune it. And then it's always cross tested by someone at The Washington Post or for my books. I have friends and family cross testing the recipe. So I think that's one of the things also that's been interesting in the course of my career of developing recipes now for decades is that. with all of these sort of Instagram reels and TikTokers and all this, it's astounding to me how many recipes seem really untested. Like they're throwing these ideas out there, but they're not necessarily really well formed or, and they, many of them don't really work when you get into the kitchen. I know this because my daughter did a recipe from one of these platforms and she was upset that She thought she did something wrong. And that's the other thing. I feel like it's a big responsibility to write a recipe because someone's going to take their time, take their money to spend on ingredients. And then if it doesn't work out, they mostly blame themselves, just like my daughter did. And then they feel like, oh, I can't cook. Well, I'm telling you one of what happened with my daughter is that I looked at the recipe and it was like, oh, no, there was an ingredient missing from this recipe. Like it was a brownie recipe with no flour or something like that. And like she blamed herself and I was furious because like this is a problem within the industry right now is that a lot of these recipes aren't properly tested. So I would say that if you're going to look for a recipe to cook, make sure it's from someone that you really trust and from a platform that you know has a really good reputation in terms of making sure these recipes work because it takes a lot of effort. and a lot of money and a lot of time to make sure a recipe works. And so I don't think a lot of influencers are really necessarily putting that time into it. Speaker #0 I so agree. I've had that experience myself where I looked at a recipe, and I was like, I don't think that's going to work the way they're showing us it did. And so I try it. And sure enough, many of the times I'm right, and it doesn't work. And so what I've discovered is that You know, we have to remember that social media, there is this sort of behind the scenes business of it. And for a social media account or influencer or voice to, let's say, publish a reel, ultimately what they're trying to do is grow their Instagram channel or get more followers and or play that game. According to that game, there are certain important rules. One is that the protein chocolate chip cookie needs to look like a perfect normal chocolate chip cookie when most of the time they don't. And so what I've discovered is sometimes behind the scene, what they're doing is they're altering the recipe to make sure it looks good, but it actually isn't the recipe that gets published. And so there really is a lot of funny business out there in these, you know, not vetted out, not legitimate experts in their field in terms of like recipe creation, you know, where you stand out as your a legitimate recipe developer and registered dietitian, which is so different. And I've had that same experience. And I agree with you, it's like so frustrating to not get it right. Tell me what is if someone's listening, and they just feel tired and or intimidated by recipes in the kitchen or cooking? What's a recipe of yours that's like a no fail, big win. She should start with this recipe. Speaker #1 Oh my gosh. I can't even think of specifics. I mean really just peruse my website because I have so many recipes on my website and find something that just entices you. I mean, I guess one that I make regularly all the time and is great for this season is my family favorite minestrone soup. And when my daughter was in college, she loved, was making it for herself. So I know it's easy to make. And it's just, it's a meal in a bowl and it's so comforting and it's so satisfying and it's packed with fiber and has protein from beans. And so I don't know, I love that minestrone soup, but you know, one of the things that's so interesting about food is that I feel like we're, and this is maybe, you know, I'm kind of, I'm on food TV sort of thing. So I'm maybe... Partially to blame for this, although I don't think so because I've always been very realistic in what I present. But I think food TV has almost made us have this perception that like in order for food to be good, we have to be doing something complicated. We have to be grinding veal bones into a sauce or something like really sometimes when I'm not in the mood to cook. So what do I make when I'm not in the mood to cook? I take a couple of pieces of salmon, two, three pieces of salmon. I actually usually put an extra one on there. So I have leftovers because I'm a big fan of leftovers. Take a few pieces of salmon, salt and pepper, a little drizzle of olive oil. And then on that pan, I might put some Brussels sprouts, olive oil, salt and pepper, maybe some kind of potatoes, olive oil, salt and pepper. And I stick it in the oven. I'll give the potatoes actually a little head start, 10 minutes, then put the rest in the oven. And then it's just done. And you squeeze lemon over the... all over the fish. It could be that simple and incredible. And it's a delicious meal that my whole family loves. So I feel like we get into this notion that we have to do something really super special in a way when actually sometimes just really nice ingredients, seasonal ingredients prepared simply so their flavors really shine. Salt, pepper, lemon, little oil, Speaker #0 garlic, Speaker #1 really does magic. A little garlic. Sure. Speaker #0 Yep. Yeah, that's something that I really discovered in the kitchen myself is it's like, wow, salt, pepper, acid and olive oil and garlic goes really far. Speaker #1 Yeah, totally. Totally. And then of course you can run in a million different directions. Paprika, garlic rub or whatever. I mean, I have, you know, a lot of creative recipes on my website that are easy as well that take it a little notch above. a miso glaze on the salmon, for example. I love that. It's literally like stirring miso and honey and maybe a little ginger together and then rubbing that on the salmon before you cook it. So like that kind of thing is just delightful. So yeah, there's so many to choose from that I can't pick. It's like picking between my children. Speaker #0 It's like Sophie's Choice. Yeah, that's what I always say. That's like asking me to pick my favorite exercise and I'm like, oh, that is absolutely... absolutely impossible. I've got seven that are my top number ones. Speaker #1 Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You got to cover the whole all body parts, right? Speaker #0 Yeah, yeah. So I'm sure that we share the link to your website in the show notes. And I also want to talk about your sub stack because I know that you are moving in that direction. You're creating both free and subscription based content over on your Last week, you published an article over there on Substack called For Changes That Last, Make Them Smart. And it's your take on the basically like project management goal setting framework introduced by George Duran. And I think it would be so cool if you would tell us a little bit about your version, if you're open to that, in terms of how you take that concept and apply it to nutrition and eating. Sure. Speaker #1 Yeah, sure. Well, I think it's really about smart goal setting. And that's why the term SMART really works because from my perspective, it stands for making changes that are specific, meaningful, attainable, realistic and trackable. So I'll explain that a little bit. So a lot of times, you know, we want to make a change in our life. We're like, I want to eat better. So I Okay, this year I'm going to eat better in 2026. That's a great goal, except what does that mean? So looking at the specific, that's the first one, the S is specific, the specific behaviors that translate to eating better. What is that? So I think pretty much for everyone that could be eating more vegetables, but that's even not specific enough. So getting really granular about it and saying, what does it mean to me to eat better in my life right now? And so let's say that means, okay, I'm going to include a fruit or vegetable at every meal or snack. That would be the level of specificity. That's really going to be something that you can now you could do that. Right. And when I say then, so that's the kind of you want to drill down to that level of what's the behavior that's going to get me where I want and really specific doable behavior. So then the meaningful part, the M in smart is... Why are you even doing this? So tapping into your motivation and really saying, oh maybe I want to eat better because I want to be healthier so I can go hiking with my daughter in the next 10 years or 20 years or 30 years or play with my grandchildren down the road or whatever it may be. For me in some ways it's about being able to just move my body as I age in a fluid way, you know, that's something that's really meaningful to me. So finding out what, why are you doing this and knowing what your why is, is something that can be really helpful as the days go on and you're needing motivation. You can really tap back and even write yourself a note of why you're doing this. The third one is attainable. So making sure, so let's say we're vegetable at every meal. Maybe, okay, maybe that's not realistic. Maybe I'm going to eat a vegetable at lunch, dinner, and my snack. So just really deciding what is attainable. And I like to look at it on a scale of one to five. One being, oh, that's super easy. Five being, that's incredibly hard. Where's your three? That's like a little bit of a push, but not so much that it feels like a burden. And then the R is realistic. So thinking about you know, how am I going to do this? Anticipating things that might come up. Maybe you're going to be traveling. How are you going to get your vegetable at your snack then? Maybe that means going to the grocery store wherever you are and picking up a few little items to keep in the fridge. So being realistic about what you can do and also giving yourself a little bit of a pressure release. I think we tend to be very all or nothing about things. And Giving yourself, okay, if this should happen, if I have a crazy, crazy week, I'm going to pick up the next day and move on. And I miss one day of eating a vegetable, like I'm saying, I'm going to pick up the next day. So making a realistic plan for yourself. And then the last one, the T is being trackable so that you could literally in your little calendar check off, yes, I ate a vegetable at my lunch, dinner and snack today. and just make a check mark. And maybe after a certain number of check marks, build a reward in for yourself. So this trackability and accountability all makes these behaviors now much more feasible and much more achievable essentially than if you just said I'm gonna eat better and didn't really define what that was. Speaker #0 I love that. And I think, right, like it really starts with picking one. task, one target, as you said, using vegetables and or fruit, right? It's like picking that one thing and sticking with it through to the really, you know, binary action. Did I do it or not? Yes or no, is the trackable part can be so powerful because I think in this day and age, we are way overly inundated with different things we can and should be doing each day for our health or specifically our nutrition. And it's so easy to say, oh, I'm going to eat healthier. And it just doesn't go anywhere because there's no definition to it. Yeah, Speaker #1 and then your head is going to explode because you're looking at a menu and you're like, is this you don't know what to even do anymore because you're having so much conflicting information. Speaker #0 Yes. Speaker #1 And that actually is a little bit of a segue for me right now unintentionally to my Substack because one of the things I do on my free Substack is so Substack is essentially a newsletter platform. basically. And so I do the free one, which is a series of recipes and a little reason why I picked those recipes to shout out that week. And then every other week is an article like a more long form well-researched piece about something that in the nutrition world that's trending or confusing or that people ask me about because I actually try to really respond to subscribers questions and dig into them. And so I also write feature articles for the Washington Post. This is a similar type of article that I would write for the Washington Post that I'm doing for my premium newsletter, just for my subscribers. So I write about things like what are the best foods to combat inflammation? How much protein do you really need? I'm about to be writing about fiber and Fibromaxi and what all this is and what's the best way to increase fiber in your life. So a lot of these issues come up on misinformation out there that your head Speaker #0 is going to explode kind of thing. And I really pride myself on being a trustworthy resource. And it's all based on, you know, studies. And if there's, you know, contradictions in the studies, I will say there's contradictions in the studies. So it's a really... And then also give a bottom line. Okay, so what do you do? So what does this mean for real life? And so without making it complicated, I really try to help people I help try to, I try to be an oasis from all the noise, honestly, and a resource for just like sound doable information. Speaker #1 Yeah. And I've always really appreciated how you blend recipes and insights. So many people out there are doing one or the other, right? Like so many people do just recipes and or just cookbooks, but they can't and shouldn't be talking about. health topics. Even though they do anyways sometimes. Even though they do anyways, exactly. Yeah. But here you've actually got the qualifications and the rightful knowledge to be doing that, which I think there needs to be more of that. I love it because it's like, ooh, we get a recipe from you that is healthful. And you also do talk about these nutrition forward topics that are just important from the perspective of human you know, splitting the balance, you know, one leg on each side of that conversation, which is like super, super powerful. And you do such a good job of that on your sub stack. Speaker #0 No, thank you so much. Yeah, I'm really enjoying it. I'm really enjoying the platform. And as I'm seeing it grow, which is incredible, because I've been on there for about three years now. And I'm seeing lots and lots of people go over there and start their newsletter. So it's see it growing. And, and it's really wonderful just to have this direct relationship with my subscribers. So there's no, you know, if you sign up for it, you get it every week or every other week, depending on what you sign up for. And, and there's no algorithm, you know, that's gonna make you miss me for a month or something. Speaker #1 Yes, I love that. And so I know you've been on always just published free information and articles. And now you're also offering the premium upgraded subscription. Is that a new feature for you? Speaker #0 Yes. Yeah. So interestingly, I was I had my newsletter for like 15 years. I have quite a nice subscription bracelet, the free one, the free one. But it was incredible because as my subscription base was growing, it was costing me more and more money to put the thing out because these platforms charge quite a bit. to put out a newsletter like MailChimp and GoDaddy and all those. So it started costing me a lot, and I really started looking at that. And that's when Substack came to me. I had learned about Substack, and they put your free one out for free. So then that takes that quite a bit of an expense off your fleet, which is terrific. And then they're really set up to... encourage you to monetize a premium subscription. So this was a wonderful opportunity for me, honestly, because for the free one, I was never doing these in-depth articles. They take days of my time to really sit down and research a topic and write about it. It takes easily days. So in order to do that, I was writing for the Washington Post or whatever, or for different outlets. But now this is giving me a chance to write about that It's supported by my subscribers. They can ask me to write about something and I will dive into that topic for them. So there's a real direct relationship there. And I just, and I don't have to pitch an idea to an editor, you know, if I want to write about something and I'm intrigued with an idea or I feel like there's a lot of questions out there about a particular idea, I just dive in and write about it. So I really enjoy that. And part of my, paid subscribers besides the in-depth info. They also get recipes from what I call my secret stash, so recipes that aren't on my website that I provide for them especially. Speaker #1 I love that. And is it true also that when someone does subscribe as a premium member, if you will, they also get a copy of your book? Speaker #0 Oh no, not automatically. Not automatically. Not automatically. Okay. But I do give book, I have book giveaways now and then. Speaker #1 Oh, Speaker #0 that's awesome. Is Holen one of your most recent books? Yes, whole in one. And it's W-H-O-L-E, whole in one. So it's whole meals in one sheet pan pot or skillet. So that was my way of saying, oh, I don't want to do all these dishes, even though, to be honest, my husband does the dishes or my daughter. So I guess I was doing them a little favor here. But but I just love a one pot meal or one meal. Speaker #1 Same, same, same, same. Like that is the fastest way to get me to cook. if I know that it's going to be simple. It's one pan, it's one sheet, it's one pot, whatever. I think that's super appealing, certainly for me, I think for a lot of people. So I love the concept of that book. Speaker #0 Oh, thank you. Yeah, it's gone really well. And the reception to it has been terrific. And it was nominated for an IACP award, which was cool. But yeah, so I would say that's I've become a better recipe developer as the years go by. And so that is like actually my favorite book now, even though I do love them all in their own way. But um, but yeah, I love because I feel like I was really creative with the flavors but kept it super easy. Again, I cannot be bothered. I don't, I like kind of more fuss free cooking, but I want something fabulously flavorful. And that's kind of what I'm really trying to achieve there. all my books really, but they're specifically and also for doing it in one pan. Speaker #1 I love that. I have one more question for you. So in your, I think it was your December sub stack, you wrote a quote that I thought was just like so powerful. And it said, sometimes it feels frivolous to write about food when there is so much tragedy and pain in the world. But then I remember that food is an expression of love And since love is the only thing that can truly get us through the darkness, any sign of it is part of the solution, which I think is just so beautiful. Tell us about how can our listener use comfort foods and more specifically your comfort food recipes to, you know, soothe our hearts while also staying on track while eating healthy? Speaker #0 Yeah, I mean, sometimes I feel... really so overwhelmed by all the horrors going on in the world. I read the newspaper every day, and I'm just like crushed. Speaker #1 Yeah. Speaker #0 And it does feel kind of like, oh, I'm writing about food. This is so dumb. But truly, this was a genuine sentiment for me because I'm like, it's not dumb. This is literally the glue. Food is the glue that keeps us together. And I really believe in that. And so I'm, I think it helps. And then in terms of comfort, because that newsletter was all about comfort food. I feel like we have this notion that comfort food automatically is unhealthy, right? It's gravy and it's fried and it's chips and it's cake and it could be that, that's fine now and then. But I think if everyone just took a pause and thought about what foods give me comfort that are like kind of on the healthier side, I bet you everyone would have something, right? Food is supposed to be comforting, right? It's supposed to make us feel good. It's supposed to be comforting. It's supposed to be pleasurable. If you think about a baby, when you're feeding a baby, these moments is more than just getting food in their belly. These moments are about being close to their caregiver and having that intimacy and being comforted by that. And I think where we take that with us on some level. So like my, one of my big comfort foods is chicken soup. Speaker #1 Yeah. Speaker #0 I feel like that's what my grandma would make me when I wasn't feeling well. That's like a soup is a sign of love to me. If someone's not feeling well, I make them some matzo ball soup or something and I feel like I'm giving something of myself and of my heart. And there's comfort in that, you know, there's comfort in a roast chicken. I think Jacques Pepin says his favorite comfort food is like roast chicken or something. I may be misquoting but it's like Something like that. So if we really think about the foods that give us comfort, very often they're foods that bring back warm, fuzzy memories with our families, with loved ones. And I think we can go there with it. And whatever that may be for you. And maybe there's a way to lighten it up somehow if it's kind of rich. Or maybe that's just going to be the thing that does the trick and that's fine too. I think that's one of the things... is my philosophy of food. I look at food as usually, sometimes and rarely. I think we very much get into this binary, food is good or bad. And those words are very... inappropriate around food, honestly. Speaker #1 Yep. Speaker #0 Because we have to look at the bigger pattern of our week of our day of our how bigger pattern of our eating. And if we think about it as usually sometimes and rarely, that helps us modulate that a little bit. And it's what you do usually that defines your diet that defines your overall well being. And so what we do sometimes or what it's not going to ruin anything. And I think that that's a big exhale and it might actually do the opposite of ruining. It might actually make it better because for me, if someone told me I could never have something, if I was told I could never have chocolate, I would be obsessed with chocolate. All I would want ever was chocolate, but I know I can have it. And so I can have a little and move on and it just becomes less important. And I think that that's mind trick. that we can do for ourselves is like, let ourselves have it and be part of our lives in a balanced way. Speaker #1 Yeah, I share the same sentiment and talk about that all the time. One meal or even a couple meals over a week are not going to radically derail a person in terms of their health or their goals, or how they feel. It really is what you do usually. So I love that. Usually, sometimes rarely. Right? is such a powerful way because it also gives you permission to enjoy the rarely, if that's what you want and or need today or tomorrow, even if it is something that you're just in the mood for or something you're turning to as part of that like soothing comfort food. Speaker #0 Yeah, and it takes the power out of it because it's like, okay, it's just food. It's not that big of a deal. Speaker #1 Yeah, I so agree. Oh my gosh, Ellie, thank you so much. So I know that people are going to want to find you. Where is the best place to either get on your email list or your sub stack? Where are you directing people these days? Speaker #0 Yeah, if you go to my website, Ellie, Ellie Krieger calm, he'll IE k r i e g er. There you can sign up it says sign up for my free tips and recipes. And that is my sub stack newsletter. So if you can sign up right on my um, right on my website there. And you can also get articles and podcast episodes and, um, tons of recipes and see show episodes and all this other stuff too. Speaker #1 I love it. thank you so much. This was so fun. Speaker #0 Thank you. It's so good talking with you.