Are you stuck in the 'forever toning loop' and not seeing the results you desire? Many women, especially those over 40, find themselves confused about how to achieve the toned and athletic look they crave. In this episode of The Holly Perkins Health Podcast, I dive deep into the misconceptions surrounding toning workouts and reveal the key strategies for building lean muscle effectively. As I often say, "True muscle definition comes from strength training, not endless repetitions of light weights. " It's time to break free from the cycle of ineffective workouts and embrace a new approach.
Are you stuck in the 'forever toning loop' and not seeing the results you desire? Many women, especially those over 40, find themselves confused about how to achieve the toned and athletic look they crave. In this episode of The Holly Perkins Health Podcast, I dive deep into the misconceptions surrounding toning workouts and reveal the key strategies for building lean muscle effectively. As I often say, "True muscle definition comes from strength training, not endless repetitions of light weights. " It's time to break free from the cycle of ineffective workouts and embrace a new approach.
Throughout our lives, especially during midlife and menopause, our bodies undergo significant changes that can impact our fitness journey. Many women mistakenly believe that toning workouts are different from building muscle, leading them to rely on high-rep, low-weight exercises that yield little to no results. I share the inspiring story of my client, Annie, who was initially afraid of bulking up but discovered the transformative power of lifting heavier weights. By focusing on strength training, she achieved visible muscle tone and boosted her confidence.
In this episode, I outline three critical mistakes women make when trying to tone their bodies: the misconception that toning workouts are separate from muscle building, the overreliance on endless cardio, and the use of insufficient weight loads. If you're looking for effective weight loss and fitness motivation, this episode is packed with workout tips and insights tailored specifically for women over 35. It's time to shift your mindset and understand that building muscle while managing body fat is the key to achieving that toned appearance.
We'll also explore the importance of nutrition for women, including how to eat for muscle, the role of protein, and clean eating tips that can enhance your energy levels and overall wellness. Whether you're navigating the challenges of PCOS and fitness or seeking stress management techniques, I've got you covered. Join me in embracing strength training as a powerful tool for lasting change in your body composition and mental health. Tune in and discover how to transform your approach to fitness and wellness!
If you're interested in womens health, this is the podcast for you.
Get FREE lifetime access to my 4-week Strength Without Stress program today! This unique program helps you build lean muscle and reduce inflammation—without the fatigue from long or intense workouts. All you need to do is post a review of my podcast, grab a screenshot, and upload it at: hollyperkins.com/review
This offer won’t last—soon it will sell for $197. Don’t miss your chance to grab it free!
Resources:
+Follow so you'll know exactly when new episodes are available on Tuesdays.
Speaker #0 In my experience, most women want to feel tight and lean and see some muscle tone. My clients have told me that they want to look athletic and see some muscle definition and have their physique show all of their hard work in the gym. And so it makes sense that a woman would seek out toning workouts because, well, after all, you want tone, right? If you're wanting strength and muscle definition and want to know the best toning workouts, keep listening because I'll give you that, but I'm also going to give you so much more. Hello and welcome. Thank you for being here. If you are new, I'm Holly Perkins, and I focus on helping women, mostly over 40, to improve body composition to at least 70% lean mass. so that you reduce your risk of disease, have the muscle that you want to see, feel strong, and have the body that you need to keep up with the life that you love. Because what good is living a long life if you're living it from the rocking chair, right? And if you're a woman who is working out and you have a tendency to lean towards toning workouts so that you can look toned, but you're finding that your body still doesn't look toned. I've got a fresh perspective for you today because what if the very thing that you think creates muscle definition is the reason that you're not seeing it? It's a bit of a brain teaser, I know, but let me explain. If you're struggling because you just want to tone up or you're truly concerned about getting bulky or maybe you're working hard but you're not seeing the definition that you want or that you think that you should be seeing. You may be stuck in what I call the forever toning loop. And guess what? There is both an explanation and a solution for you. So in this episode, you'll learn the three biggest mistakes to avoid if you want to tone up, why toning workouts are often misunderstood, how you can get the toned look but through a different approach, the real science behind muscle definition, and and the exact type of strength training that creates visible muscle tone. I believe that every woman is capable of really getting strong and that your body is designed to build muscle at every age. Now, if you hear me say that and you're someone who is truly scared about bulking up, please don't shy away when I say that because if you've been chasing toning workouts because you're afraid of blocking up. but you're not getting anywhere. I believe it's because you don't fully understand how muscles work. And in order to become really truly powerful on all levels in your life, by the way, it truly starts with strong muscles. Because when you feel physically strong, how do you walk through the world? Very differently, right? And as you'll see in a moment, strong muscles give you the firmer lean looking muscles that is synonymous with the toned look that you're going for, if that's you. So I want to share a story from, oh gosh, many years back. I had a client, her name was Annie, love and adore her. And she was a very slender woman and she did not need to lose weight. She would say that, I would say that if you saw her on the street, you would agree. She worked out because she wanted to feel good. And maybe more for vanity reasons, because she wanted, as she would say in quotes, a sleek runway model figure. That's what she was going for. I think you could probably envision that, right? She was a music executive and she was a bit stuck in the sort of like 90s heroin chic phase. If you know, you know, it's kind of coming back around, which is wild to think. And she was really... Super fabulous. She looked amazing. But despite her self-professed commitment to toning-only workouts, her body actually wasn't very toned. I would say that, but she would say that too. And in fact, her complaint when she came to me was that she's doing the workouts that the other trainers are telling her to do to get toned, but yet she didn't like the firmness of her arms, her legs, and her butt. She wasn't toned. So in order to fact check, as I always do, that's something that I have learned in all these years of working with people is that a client might say one thing, but I always have to do my due diligence and just fact check what people are saying. This is a real skill. If you are in the health and fitness profession or you're a personal trainer, this is one of the best things that you will ever learn from me is don't insert your own interpretation of what someone else is saying. You've got to fact check. So. I asked her to review with me the exact workouts that she had been doing, and it turned out the issue wasn't even the effort that she was putting in. It was her weight loads. She had been doing 30, 40, sometimes even 50 reps of exercises with two and three pound dumbbells, toning movements, right? So I asked her, if she ever got a little wild and crazy and picked up maybe a five-pound dumbbell. And she looked at me literally with horror and terror, as if I asked her to deadlift like 300 pounds, right? She was in shock. Oh my gosh, no. She said, I do not want to get bulky. And so she had this clear association with like any weight loads over two or three pounds, and she was going to get bulky, but the irony and the humor here is that... What she was doing wasn't getting her toned anyway. So clearly, Houston, we have a problem, right? So very long story longer, I told her that if she wanted to train with me, she would have to give me a full three months and allow me to train her with my approach. She had to play my game, where in fact, we were going to be using those big, scary five pound dumbbells and maybe even some terrifying 10 pound dumbbells. Oh my, right? So of course she agreed. And wouldn't you know it, within about, I would say, if I'm remembering correctly, let's say eight weeks, it was a few months later, two to three months later, her body looked and felt better than it had in 10 years. She was astounded. And while I haven't seen Annie in many, many, many, many years, I can pretty much guarantee that those 10-pound dumbbells is what she's reaching for still to this day during her work. Whether she calls it a toning workout or not. You follow me? So let's get into what actually is the best toning workouts for women, shall we? Because it's not what you think. There are three key mistakes that I want to review here as I give you direction on what to do and what not to do. And the first mistake is this belief that toning is any different than building muscle. It's not. There is no physiological process called toning. You are either building muscle and lowering excess body fat so that you can see the muscle, or you're just stagnating. And that's really it. Research consistently shows that muscle growth requires progressive resistance and adequate mechanical tension over time, not just you repetition. And so 30, 40, 50 reps, I will argue, can produce some results on some level for sure. I actually do believe there's a definition of toning that we could all agree on, even though my fellow experts would say, they would probably scoff at that word and say, there's no such thing as toning. Well, I think it's all about semantics, right? And we're going to talk about that. Whatever weight load you're using, let's say it's three pounds or five pounds on some arbitrary exercise, just follow me conceptually here, and you're doing that over and over and over with lots of reps or more reps, but you never go above a certain weight load. Your body literally will adapt to what you're doing, but it will stop adapting and therefore it will stop changing. But when you progressively overload a muscle, and in my opinion, that means progressive weight load, because technically more and more reps is a progression. So when I'm talking about it, I'm really talking about increasing the weight loads that you're using on your exercises if what you want is a different outcome. When you progressively overload muscle this way, it reshapes your body. It gives you. visible definition. We do have to talk about body fat in a moment. It increases your resting metabolism and also just improves metabolic health in general by improving insulin sensitivity and how your body responds to the carbohydrates that you eat. Oh, by the way, as an aside, I will probably do a podcast episode on this down the road. I actually think this term insulin sensitivity has really become like a buzz phrase. And a lot of people, women in particular, are walking around thinking that they've got insulin resistance when they actually don't. That's a whole other podcast episode. Don't get me started. Deep breath. Anyway, it's the strength training and the muscle building that really reduces long-term risk and beyond the health benefits, gives a woman the body. that from my side of the desk, my side of the phone call, is the aesthetic that you're going for. Whether you call that toned or not, I think we all know exactly the outcome we're talking about. Now, there is a bit of science that I need to cover here, and if that is not your thing, I hope that you'll bear with me because it's something that isn't being said out there in media land. I don't know why. And you might hear other experts say that toning isn't a real thing. And to that, I want to say, well, it is when we break it down and define the semantics of what we're actually talking about here. And as I said at the top of the show, the women that I've consulted with and women that generally choose to work with me would say that they want to have firm, visible muscles with definition. You're with me, right? where you can see the influence of the muscle clearly. You can see some muscle while she doesn't actually want to increase her size. And so we can use the word toned to define that. And there are certain kind of workout programs and, of course, nutrition strategies that lead to that. And now here is where I want to cover the science a little bit because it is important to understand. how muscles work. There are two kinds of muscular development. Now, I would like to use the word muscle hypertrophy, but I think a lot of people don't understand that word and feel a bit intimidated by it. So let's just say muscle development. Cool. There's two kinds, myofibrillar and sarcoplasmic. And this is what no one is talking about. There's myofibrillar hypertrophy, you can Google it, and there is sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. Those are two different environments. and outcomes when a muscle changes. These are two different kinds of hypertrophy, which simply just means an increase in the size of a muscle. And if you're someone who is into the science of this, and I hope that you would be because when you come to understand everything I talk about here on the podcast, you can become your own coach and you can also end up getting better results when you understand the why of it. You're less susceptible to some of the messaging that you hear in social media when you really understand biology. And so if you are someone who's into this and want to learn more specifically about the science behind getting lean, getting a strong body, do make sure that you register for the Muscle for Life workshop that's coming up. It starts on March 5th. It's a three-day workshop covering two different weeks. If you can't be there live, you will get the recordings totally free. And I'm going to be diving in deep to topics like this. And I think you'll find it very illuminating, especially if you're someone who does want to tone up your body. Go to hollyperkins.com forward slash free workshop, sign up, and you'll get the recordings if you can't make it live. Anyway, I want to explain these two types of hypertrophy in a very easy to understand way. If you have ever been to, let's say, like a booty bar or like a ballet bar type exercise class or body toning exercise class of a variety of names, you might have noticed that your muscles do indeed feel more toned afterwards for a day or two. Now, maybe not after every class, but have not, have you not had that experience before? I certainly have. So these types of classes and workouts tend to use very low weight loads, sometimes just your own body weight, let's say like leg lifts for a hundred reps. And the exercises are just very repetitive. You're doing a lot of reps over and over and over. That kind of muscle tone that you feel afterwards, either immediately after or in the days following, is what we call sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. And really what it is is just a mild swelling of the muscle due to increased fluid in the muscle. Your muscle does get bigger, but it's getting bigger because of fluid, mostly water. It's not getting bigger because the muscle fibers are bigger. And that's a very important thing to understand, especially if we're going to debunk this concept of toning workouts, because I would agree. There are ways to become toned, but it's not because of the workout. And so when you understand this difference, it makes all the difference. And just to make sure you know, I can relate, I was that girl. In my 20s, I was really afraid of getting bulky. I remember looking in a full-length mirror I had on, and black was very in during those days, and I had an all-black outfit on because black was supposed to be slimming, right? And I had a certain, let's say, shape and structure to my hips and my pelvis. And I remember thinking I was doing, I was beginning my strength training journey, really. But I was like, ooh, I don't want that to get any bigger or bulkier. And I really was at the beginning of my strength training journey and really understanding it. So what I did is I did a lot of running. I did yoga. I took a lot of classes at the time. And this was while I was beginning to really understand strength training. So the majority of strength training back then was a lot of circuit training and or really metabolic type classes. And I will say that sometimes after some of those classes, if I had gone enough weeks in a row, I would indeed feel that my muscles had gotten like tighter and denser. And I felt that I had some glimpses of muscle definition. It's true. But... Let's compare that to myofibrillar hypertrophy. And this is where you use heavier weight loads, where you cannot do more than 10 or 12 reps, and you progressively increase those weight loads over time. And so maybe this week, your goblet squat is 10 pounds, but weeks down the road, your goblet squat is 30, 40, and 50 pounds. Make sense? Now, this might be something like... 115-pound deadlift for 8 to 10 reps. And after 8 to 12 weeks of progressing your weight load, with that, let's say 8 to 10, maybe 12 reps, that muscle change is what we call myofibrillar hypertrophy. And it's the result of the programming. And that result of the programming you influences the weight loads that you could do. Because you would never go into one of those toning classes where you're going to do 150 reps of leg lifts. You would never be able to do that with a 50-pound ankle weight. And so by nature of the programming, the body adapts. Whatever stimulus you give it, the body adapts accordingly. And so higher reps with lower weight loads In order to be able to do higher reps, you've got to have a lower weight load, changes the muscle differently. And so myofibrillar hypertrophy is an actual real change in the muscle size. It differs from sarcoplasmic hypertrophy in that myofibrillar hypertrophy is the type of muscle growth that focuses on increasing the size and density. of the contractile components of muscle fibers. So it's a growth in the number in the thickness of what we call myofibrils, which are really must think of it like muscle fibers. Okay. And it leads to denser, stronger muscles, not just swelling. It's an actual change in the thickness of the muscle. Whereas the other kind of hypertrophy is an increase in size because of fluid in the muscle. And therefore, it's really just swelling. So that firmness that you feel after going to toning classes for a number of weeks is basically swelling and it doesn't last. And you haven't actually improved the muscle in terms of strength. You may have improved your muscular endurance, but you haven't gotten stronger. Based on what I've said, if you want to tone. in a way that sticks around, then your best toning workout is actually proper strength training, like I teach on all of my podcast episodes. But through this lens, you would focus on slightly lighter weight loads where you can only complete 12 to 15 reps. So as compared to a toning workout is actually a heavier weight load. Because in order to... reach fatigue at 12 to 15 reps, you would have to be using a heavier weight load than you did in a toning class. Makes sense, right? Now, this leans towards sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, which is fine. It's better than a three or a five pound dumbbell. And my preference is really to have women go in the direction of the latter hypertrophy that I talked about. You could also continue with toning type workout classes like I've mentioned, but... If you've already been doing that, then the issue is exactly what I said before. The very thing that you think creates muscle definition, toning classes, is the reason why you're not getting results. So therefore, I will say that I promise you will get better results if you shift your mentality from light, light, light weights and a toning workout to strength training to build muscle. So I actually do believe that you can improve. the tone of a muscle, but it's not what you think. And it's not going to stick around and you're not going to become stronger and you're not truly changing the muscle and you're definitely not building muscle and you'll need that muscle in the years ahead. So instead, I will share how you can improve muscle tone by actually improving the size of the muscle. And if you're worried about bulking up, I'm going to address that too in just a moment. But first, I would like to brag a bit. Would that be okay? So I heard a quote recently from a reputable authority who said that she does not know a single woman over 40 who doesn't have sleep problems. And I was surprised to hear that. Now, it's an informal statistic, right? It's anecdotal information. I'm not. I was surprised because I am that woman. I do not have any sleep issues whatsoever, unless of course I drink way too much caffeine late in the day, duh. I sleep like a baby at night. I am a champion sleeper and my husband says it himself. I rarely wake up in the middle of the night. I rarely have to use the bathroom in the middle of the night. And I always fall back to sleep quickly. I sleep great. I wake up feeling great most days. And now listen, it wasn't always this way. In fact, the truth is many years ago, I used to be a terrible, terrible sleeper and I knew that I needed to fix it. So I made some lifestyle changes and now I'm proud to say I could probably teach a course on how to sleep better. And while I admit there is not just like one thing that works for everyone, I will say. My sleep got even better when I started incorporating Beam's Dream Powder last year. Dream is made with clean, science-backed ingredients like reishi, magnesium, l-theanine, apigenin, and melatonin, formulated to help you fall asleep fast, stay asleep, and then wake up refreshed. No grogginess, no crash, just that deep, restorative rest and yes, it actually tastes amazing. My favorite flavor still is brownie batter, and it kind of feels like a bit of a dessert before bed, but I feel good about it. Sometimes I even add chocolate protein powder to it, and I swear that it helps my recovery from my workouts. And get this, Beam has already improved over 28 million nights of sleep, helping people across the country wake up and feel their best. Go to shopbeam.com forward slash hollypea and use code hollypea and take advantage of my exclusive offer for up to 40% off Beams Dream Powder. And so seriously, think about it. How much would you pay for a truly great night of sleep? With my discount, hollypea, it's just $1.25 per night. So go to shopbeam.com forward slash Holly P today. So going back to my story about my client, Annie, who was so scared of bulking up, I do believe many women like her are truly worried about that. And that's why so many women seek out toning workouts. So I want to clarify this misunderstanding because muscle is the thing that will give you the strong, lean, athletic physique that you're looking for. And if you want to look toned, you need muscle. And there are two considerations that come up here. How much muscle do you actually want? Because if you don't want to bulk up, we really do need to define it and understand how a muscle actually changes. The first thing to understand is that it is actually very hard for women to build more muscle than the muscle they want. And to put it into perspective, inside of my coaching program, The Body Composition Project, I guide women through a six-month protocol to build muscle and burn fat at the same time. Many of the women in that group are working really hard to build muscle day in and day out. throughout that whole six months. And yet, some of them will only gain five pounds. And if that sounds like, oh my gosh, I don't want to gain five pounds, remember, we're talking about five pounds of muscle. And that five pounds of muscle is divided up amongst the 650 muscles in your entire your body. So even if you were lucky enough to gain five pounds of muscle, it simply will appear as better muscle tone because five pounds of muscle does not look bulky to the eye, even on the smallest frame. The second consideration to understand is to what degree is body fat an issue for you? Keep in mind, body fat lays on top of muscle. So the more body fat you have, the less likely you'll see . muscle tone. I always used to say everyone looks toned if we took the body fat off of you. Now, there is also the consideration of inflammation, but let's put that aside. Everyone looks ripped and lean without fat on top of the muscle. And I actually quit saying it this way because I think the logical solution then is to burn off the fat that's on your muscle. And I actually find that to be way more complicated than what I teach. which is let's get that muscle super active because it will burn off the body fat. Some women mistakenly think that their muscles have gotten bulky when really the problem is there's just too much fat on top of the muscle. Because if the muscle swells a little bit, that's going to push the body fat out and you're going to feel like you got bulky, but that's actually not the issue. So even the best toning workout will fail to get you the result that you want if what you need to do is reduce body fat that's hiding the muscle. So a logical assumption is to say, well, then I need to lose fat. And while that's technically true, going about it by stimulating the muscle underneath is a much better process than just forcing weight loss. And in order to do this, it's important that you address nutrition. And further, to ensure that you've got a mild calorie deficit so that while you're building the tight and lean muscles, the body fat is slowly coming off. And if you approach it from this angle, the results are always fabulous. The best toning workout is one where you try to build five pounds of muscle while you simultaneously adjust your nutrition and cardio to burn off extra fat. That produces a tight, lean, strong physique that most people would agree meets the definition of Now, this leads into the third mistake, which is just doing endless cardio and circuit type workouts and expecting muscle definition.Cardio burns calories while you're doing it. That is true. Cardio is important. But strength training changes your body long-term and too much cardio interrupts that process. The big mistake is that a lot of women turn up the cardio in order to burn off the body fat, but this often leads to muscle loss as well. And so it's counterproductive. Too much cardio or too high of intensity during any cardio can be catabolic, which means it's going to lead to the breakdown and the loss of muscle along with some fat. And the whole thing here is to build muscle. So if you're working hard to build muscle, but you're doing too much of the wrong kind of cardio that's also gobbling up this muscle, they tend to cancel each other out. And that's why you have to get cardio right. In my community... the rule of thumb is this. If you suspect that you want to lose 10 to 20 pounds on the scale in order to reach your ideal body weight, and by the way, no one really knows what their ideal body weight is, but you get my gist here. In that situation, you're going to want to emphasize and incorporate the following protocols in this order of importance. And it's different if you have less body fat to lose. So if you've got 15 to 20 or more pounds of body fat that you believe you need to lose, the order of importance is number one, muscle building first. And if you're truly worried about bulking up, aim to use weight loads where the last two reps of sets of 12 to 15 are truly hard. You can't do 16. You can't do 30 reps because the weight load is heavy enough. And this means that you'll likely start to progress beyond two and three pound dumbbells and on to heavier weights than what you're currently using. So your weight loads would be heavier than like a toning class, but they wouldn't be quite as heavy as what I'm going to explain in a moment. So number two, there needs to be a calorie deficit. And again, this is an order of importance. building first with a specific rep range, calorie. deficit next. Now, inside of my coaching programs, I get very technical about what your calorie target should be. And that's because calories are tricky and it depends on a number of factors. And so it's really hard for me to get super specific around calories here in a public forum because I don't know you. But I am a fan of a moderate calorie deficit each day. So that you're not experiencing big hunger and cravings. In order to release body fat, you do have to be in a calorie deficit. But the greater the calorie deficit, the more you're going to experience hunger and craving and energy fallout. I always say nothing ruins good intentions faster than being hungry. And so you have to find the sweet spot where you are in a calorie deficit, but you have good energy for your workouts and you only have mild hunger before meals. If you are pulling your hair out because you are starving all the time, either your macronutrient balance is off or you're eating way too little and you're in too big of a calorie deficit. The third consideration here in this order is cardio. And again, this could be an entire episode on its own. But in general, you're going to want to focus on true cardio workouts every week, not just getting your steps in. I know that's really been the messaging these days is like ultra low, what we call low intensity, steady state cardio, like walking, which doesn't actually get your heart rate up. And so I recommend cardio sessions where your heart rate is somewhere between 70 and 75% of your theoretical maximum heart rate. Then if you're in a different group where you feel you're within, let's say, 10 to 15 pounds of what you believe is your target body weight and or your body fat loss is somewhere around 10 to 15 pounds. In my world, that's no big deal. 10 to 15 pounds, 10 to 12 pounds of body fat is like a piece of cake. And so in this situation, you might think it's about weight loss, but from my perspective, it's really not. Your focus should be more on building muscle, and less on cardio. And this would mean, in order of importance, number one, muscle building, using even heavier weight loads where you cannot do more than 12 repetitions in your sets. Number two, calories. Again, it's a whole episode on its own, but you really want to be closer to calorie maintenance, which means you're eating as much as you're burning each day. And you're not really seeing big changes over time in terms of the body fat. It will come off. But energy maintenance is really a better place because you're more optimized to build muscle. And in time, that muscle is what's really going to create a different metabolic environment to burn off the body fat. Rather than tackling the body fat directly, we're approaching it indirectly from a muscle first perspective. And then lastly, cardio. And this is where I really encourage my clients to limit it to like three, maybe four sessions per week, 30 minutes max, steady state sessions where your heart rate is around 70 to 75% of your theoretical maximum heart rate. And while you might think these two categorizations sound really, really similar, the truth is it's in the nuances where the magic happens. So to wrap up. I want to underscore. I do believe that some workouts can lead to mild muscle tone and muscle firmness, but it's very short-sighted and it rarely leads to what most women tell me that they really want. And that firmness that you would feel tends to disappear quickly. But when you actually build real muscle, it stays around a lot longer and it makes you a lot lot stronger. And that is everything because all of those benefits from strength training show up. You feel better, you reduce aches and pains, you're stronger, you have more energy, more stamina, and your banking muscle that you're going to need in the years ahead. So now that you better understand what it means to tone your body, you might find it helpful to better understand body composition and what you should be aiming for. In podcast episode 83, Why 70% Lean Mass is the Target for Women, I explain the different considerations around your body composition, how you can determine it, what body fat percentage you should be looking for, and how to calculate your lean mass based on your body fat from any report. You'll also learn what all of the other numbers mean when you get a body composition report. I encourage you to go listen to that podcast episode now. It's linked in the show notes. I hope you enjoyed this episode. If so, please consider rating and reviewing my podcast and share your thoughts. I read every single review that gets posted, and I've really been able to pick up some great insights in terms of what you want to hear next on the podcast. And stay tuned for another brand new episode on Tuesday of next week. Stay strong, my friend.